http://www.ritlabs.com New posts in HTML Images of forum at www.ritlabs.com [www.ritlabs.com] en http://backend.userland.com/rss2 Wed, 29 Jun 2005 02:01:11 +0300 HTML Images Can HTML Images be displayed in forum The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client.
If this is as polarized a debate as it appears to be, why not offer two versions of The Bat!?  One uber-secure version for purists, and one with a toggle-able option for the other 99% of us.

Ford makes SUVs AND economy cars, because different people have different needs.  Ritlabs should do the same for email.  I’ll buy TB the same day a *fixed* version is released, but until then I have no choice but to use Outlook Express.

I print packing slips and order documents through email for my online business.  The Miva modules that send these emails to me from my shopping cart system don’t have the capability of embedding images within the email.  Therefore, in order to have the necessary company logo’s on my packing slip printouts, the messages must link to an external source.  There is absolute no security risk for these messages.  They’re being sent only to ME, from MY domain, linking to an image that I made.. and is being hosted on MY domain.

This is a perfectly good example of a scenario where external linking is not "Wrong" as Marck Pearlstone so eloquently put it, but in fact, a business necessity.

Until some functionality to display external images is implemented, myself and people like me will remain disgruntled users of Outlook Express and outside of TB’s potential customer base.
29 June 2005 02:01:11, Kevin Jones.]]> http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message6930/ http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message6930/ Wed, 29 Jun 2005 02:01:11 +0300 The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client HTML Images Can HTML Images be displayed in forum The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client.
Well like this connecting to internet is wrong, and using email is wrong... You can't convince the majority that is wrong to smoke and stop, because they will say "yes we know" and still smoking. The same for images. If people wants images will switch the client.

The scope is not to remove and impose, the scope is to do as much safe possible. IMHO
01 June 2005 10:29:03, Dico Emil.]]> http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message6145/ http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message6145/ Wed, 01 Jun 2005 10:29:03 +0300 The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client HTML Images Can HTML Images be displayed in forum The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client.
Embedded images have worked fine since the HTML viewer was first added to The Bat! and continue to be supported. What is not supported is non-embedded images that you have to go online to download while reading the mail.

I understand that most people writing here don't really understand or appreciate how wrong that is, but that's the nature of the issue. Those that understand exactly what it means should be campaigning for it to be taken out of the clients that have it and for the practice of giving links to partial message content to be discontinued as an extreme breach of both privacy and security.

They don't call me Canute for nothing!!! Then again. more and more people are dumping IE to go with FireFox every day, so maybe not all amateur netters are suicidal.

I have said elsewhere, I am personally indifferent to this issue and it wouldn't bother me if it was an option. I just thought the debate was only hearing from the "pro" camp and needed a little balance
01 June 2005 02:37:35, Marck Pearlstone.]]> http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message6125/ http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message6125/ Wed, 01 Jun 2005 02:37:35 +0300 The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client HTML Images Can HTML Images be displayed in forum The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client.
I've followed the development of The Bat! for many years now and have always been impressed by its features and stability....

That said, I still haven't purchased it.

As simply as I can state it, I would buy it tomorrow if HTML emails were supported. Right now, I definitely will not.

I was happy to see that composing html emails is now supported. It always struck me as limiting to use plain text emails. I like to send friends embedded images. So kill me. You know, it's really not the end of the world that HTML email is now the norm....

But it strikes me as ridiculous that the developers still refuse to support what is now the standard for many many people, receiving HTML emails with embedded images. Fine, make it really really REALLY hard for people to turn on the feature if you feel that that makes it more secure... But the refusual to even include the option to choose strikes me as a very arrogant pursuit on the part of the company. Make it a checkbox. With a confirmation and a double confirmation if you like. You know, even include a dogmatic statement regarding the pandora's box of hell you are going to unleash upon yourself for even thinking of looking at embedded images in your email, but jeez, it's your users....

Wouldn't you rather have more paying customers than continue to this LONG adherance to this one-side of the  debate?


01 June 2005 01:06:24, david.]]> http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message6123/ http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message6123/ Wed, 01 Jun 2005 01:06:24 +0300 The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client HTML Images Can HTML Images be displayed in forum The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client.

====quote====
None of this says "it will never happen" and it certainly doesn't say "I don't want it to happen" (and it really isn't my call whether it does or not). It does say that the debate is as old as out-of-line images in HTML messages themselves. Hashing it over again doesn't change the RITlabs awareness of the arguments nor does it move them nearer to resolving the issue. So - we all know where a lot of users stand ... they want it. And we all know where another group of users stand ... they really don't. Where's Ghandi when you need him??
=============
And some users want proportional fonts and others don't.  Hence an option exists to allow both to be happy.  I fail to see the difficulty in this.  I am a software developer and it astounds me that an email program as phenomenal as the Bat which can already display the emails fine will not provide this option.  If a decent number of the users of my application want a feature, and I personally don't want it, I put it in there any way.  

But you're right, the debate has been on a while and the final decision is RitLabs.  I, for one, will continue to watch for this, and when it happens, I will eagerly return to being a Bat user.

John
20 May 2005 14:54:44, John Campion.]]> http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message5867/ http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message5867/ Fri, 20 May 2005 14:54:44 +0300 The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client HTML Images Can HTML Images be displayed in forum The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client.
The issue is not whether or not users wish to see HTML. This we already can do, on a tab, by default or switchable - just as Becky! users can.

The issue is whether or not users want the software to be able to connect at the whim of message content to download further content not included with the message as an attachment and from a server not under user control.

Typically this means out-of-line so-called "embedded" images.

Like I say, personally, it wouldn't bother me at all and there are a couple of product newsletters for which I would enable the facility myself.

During the course of one beta series, one programmer at RIT coded an auto-connect to a fixed server to a secure database to download sender photo images to display in the message header. You should have read the vitriol!!!

I know it seems to you non-sensical for such a reaction to exist, and that you don't believe me when I say it is an opinion of a major core of the user base. I think you should try to remember that The Bat! has a huge reputation as the most secure email client bar none. One reason it retains that reputation is because it has no out-of-line connectivity to exploit.

None of this says "it will never happen" and it certainly doesn't say "I don't want it to happen" (and it really isn't my call whether it does or not). It does say that the debate is as old as out-of-line images in HTML messages themselves. Hashing it over again doesn't change the RITlabs awareness of the arguments nor does it move them nearer to resolving the issue. So - we all know where a lot of users stand ... they want it. And we all know where another group of users stand ... they really don't. Where's Ghandi when you need him??
20 May 2005 06:11:23, Marck Pearlstone.]]> http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message5864/ http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message5864/ Fri, 20 May 2005 06:11:23 +0300 The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client HTML Images Can HTML Images be displayed in forum The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client.
I agree that the ability to view HTML images should be a selectable option with the default being set to off.  If the user opts to turn HTML images on, a strong warning could pop up.  I have been using another email client (B...y!) which offers tab viewing.  The default opens the message on plain text.  If you wish to view the HTML version of the message, you click on the HTML tab.  The user also has the option to change the default view to HTML.

The Bat! is still the best email client available hands down, but I would definitely like to see the user given the ability to view messages the way the user wants.

Based on the messages posted to this forum, I disagree that the majority of The Bat! users do not want the ability to view HTML within the program.  I beleive the majority does want this ability.  I would like to see a poll taken on this matter.  Of course, bottom line is that the decision to include/exclude HTML viewing within the program lies solely with RitLabs.  As users, we have the ability to accept the decision and continue using the best email client, or move on to another client.
Ron Bernier

20 May 2005 05:50:43, Ron Bernier.]]> http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message5863/ http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message5863/ Fri, 20 May 2005 05:50:43 +0300 The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client HTML Images Can HTML Images be displayed in forum The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client.
FWIW,  I see no reason this should not be an option that is defaulted to off, and if one turns it on, then a warning should be shown that this may be a security risk.

I used Bat in the version 1.0 days, but have long ago switched away because of the simple fact that I do not like being told that HTML images are bad for me, and not even giving me the choice of what I want.  After all, isn't that the point of options/preferences, to allow the user to customize the software as they see fit?

Thunderbird and Outlook 2003 have both found a fantastic way to handle the issue - they disallow html images unless the user explicitly allows the images or the sender is on a whitelist.

If the Bat supported this, I would return and purchase an upgrade the day it was released.

John
19 May 2005 18:40:44, John Campion.]]> http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message5850/ http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message5850/ Thu, 19 May 2005 18:40:44 +0300 The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client HTML Images Can HTML Images be displayed in forum The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client.
When i first started using TB (in the days of dialup), it was an incredible benefit for all of the hyperlinks to be stripped out - it was a real pain when the software needed to connect to the net to retrieve embedded content.

Nowadays though with the majority of people going broadband, this is no longer the problem that it used to be.  Remember the days when sending a 250k attachment without checking with the recipient beforehand was frowned upon!  Embedding hi res graphical content of that sort of size is now somewhat accepted, hyperlinking it though cuts down the time it takes to download emails as the graphical content often follows after the text has already been displayed.

if it were all embedded in a single email you have to wait in full for the email to be downloaded before you can begin reading it.

Pro's and Con's all round, it would still be nice to be given the choice
18 May 2005 08:25:50, Christopher Howell.]]> http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message5815/ http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message5815/ Wed, 18 May 2005 08:25:50 +0300 The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client HTML Images Can HTML Images be displayed in forum The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client.
... and can launch a browser if you are convinced the message is genuine and really have to see the pictures. I also get such newsletters and don't miss the images one little bit. I am grateful not to have my email client drain my bandwidth to drag down images I can go look for if I am really that interested.

I accept what you are saying, as do the developers. However, don't imagine for a single second that this is the first time the argument has been made. Please try to accept that, thus far, the majority of Bat users have stated that they would be very disappointed  should it ever include automatic extra content download facilities because of the inherent security issues.

Personally, I am indifferent on the topic and can see that it could easily be an option . One day it may even be implemented as one. For now, the answer is "not yet".
18 May 2005 07:23:56, Marck Pearlstone.]]> http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message5813/ http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message5813/ Wed, 18 May 2005 07:23:56 +0300 The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client HTML Images Can HTML Images be displayed in forum The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client.
Even though "everyone else" does do it, wouldn't it be better to give the user the choice whether they wish to allow a security risk like this by putting an option in the preferences menus?.  Wouldn't it be possible to display just graphical information from html links and disregard any java or activex scripting etc.?

As much as i love TB, this really is an annoying feature as i receive a lot of newsletters from various companies that hyperlink back to their site with offers etc.
18 May 2005 06:51:48, Christopher Howell.]]> http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message5806/ http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message5806/ Wed, 18 May 2005 06:51:48 +0300 The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client HTML Images Can HTML Images be displayed in forum The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client.
This is pretty much an FAQ. The Bat! will only show images sent inline with messages. It is a security risk and privacy violation for an email client to connect to an external data source to download information not included with the original message, even if "everyone else" does do it .

There is a long standing request for The Bat! to offer an option to allow users to whitelist certain sites / sources to let external images be downloaded. This would breach the high security model on which The Bat! prides itself and is under ongoing debate.

16 May 2005 05:57:28, Marck Pearlstone.]]> http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message5723/ http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message5723/ Mon, 16 May 2005 05:57:28 +0300 The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client HTML Images Can HTML Images be displayed in forum The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client.
I know previous versions of The Bat! would not load HTML images, but when I first loaded The Bat! 3.5 the other day, I'm certain I was loading HTML images.  Now, I am getting a red X where the image/link should be.  Is there a way of loading images within the message?  If so, what is the setting that I am missing.

Thanks,
Ron Bernier
16 May 2005 05:43:54, Ron Bernier.]]> http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message5721/ http://www.ritlabs.com/en/forums/forum4/topic1369/message5721/ Mon, 16 May 2005 05:43:54 +0300 The Bat! - Configuring the E-mail Client