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Moaning, venting and complaining about upgrade policy., a bit-bucket for distracting off-topic messages about new versions
 
#51
25.5858  
I concur with Spank Monkey. I will agree that the upgrade fee is pricey, having doubled in past year, but staying with the latest version is the only way to get new features and support. By support, I refer to the continually changing internet (such as the change in Gmail some months ago and the recent addition of OAUTH to Outlook) and such fixes are applied to the current version. Upgrading is also the only way to ensure the developers are motivated to continue development.  

david
 
 
 
#52
0  
Quote
Steven Avery wrote:
Does 9 actually do anything not in 8?
I'm not sure if it's 9.2 or earlier v9, but there's an entirely new system for displaying HTML email. It redners much better than the old Bat renderer, but without using Microsoft's code and security gaps.

https://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/download.php#whatsnew

tells you what's new in 9.2.3, and clicking Revision History at the end of the list takes you to previous lists. I don't thing there's a consolidated list of changes in 9.0 through 9.2.3.

Edward
 
 
 
#53
0  
I am using The Bat! for many years now. I started with v1.62
I bought all former upgrades - except for version 3.
But I am still hesitating to buy the one for v9.
Version 8 I bought only because I had a discount voucher.

In my opinion the upgrades became very expensive.
75% of the normal price - so I have to pay almost 55 € with VAT

It is the yearly price for Office 365 Family incl. 6x 1 TB cloud storage.

There is a new major version of The Bat! every 2 years.
If I want (or have) to be up-to-date then The Bat! will cost 27 € / year

And when I compare these costs and what I get for the money with other software (listed prices are special ones)
Office 365 Family : 55 € / year
Adobe CC Photoshop / Lightroom : 90 € / year
then it is a high price for what I get.

I believe that users would upgrade much more frequently if the upgrade price would be more fair.
Does any other company ask for 75%?
Most other companies offer their updates for about 50% of the price of the standard version.
The only other exception I found was ABBYY with 66%. (I did only a short search and included Software which I recemtly had to upgrade):
DXO PhotoLab
ABBYY Finereader
Lancom VPN Client
ExpanDrive
VMWARE workstation

It is finally the decision of Ritlabs.
But at the end it will be also the decision of the users.
The less customers there are the higher the costs per customer will be.

I Russia the software (Pro version) costs 3000 Rubel - aprox. 34 Euro.
The cost of the upgrade there is only 60%: 1800 Rubel.

Why do we have to pay 75% for an upgrade?
And if the fees of cleverbridge are too high - wouldn't this be a reason to realease major upgrades less frequently?

I was a content user of The Bat!
And I am still using it.
Will I upgrade? Certainly not anymore. Or I will delay it at least as long as possible.
The reason for it created Ritlabs.
Edited: Holly12 - 25 September 2020 14:14:57
 
 
 
#54
0  
You make a good point. The upgrade fee was much less until release 9, and release 9, which came out in December 2019) was a huge disappointment for at least six months, with many existing features broken or not even available. There is a new person at the head of RIT now and he has managed to restore TB! and enhance it. Will users continue to pay this fee? It's a good question and I (along with many other users) join you in hoping to see the fee stabilized at a lower amount. TB! is an excellent product, but I don't use many of the features and Postbox is much cheaper. What none of us know is where the internet will be five years from now. A strength of TB! is that RIT continues to upgrade it to be compliant with evolving internet protocol and standards. That alone would justify the price. Version 10 is likely due in the next year, and if enough users with version 8 hold off on the upgrade, we may see a change.
 
 
 
#55
0  
Dying companies often have one choice before they fold, increase the price.
I'm not saying Ritlabs is about to fold because I have zero insight in their books.
But...

The web based offers get better and better. And are more than enough for most users.
Outlook, the software version, is even free in some cases (not talking piracy here)
Most users don't need all the functionality TB offers. That includes me. It was the filters that have drawn me to TB a decade ago.
But as alternatives grow the edge of TB gets less and less for many users.
If TB would add another 100 options, likely I'll never use them.

TB looks outdated. That drives people away.
Development costs stay the same no matter the size of the user base. In fact they even go up every year because those costs are linked to wages. And the wages are linked to the cost of living. (which always goes up)

I hope I'm totally wrong with all my speculations, because while I'm not 100% positive about everything found in TB, I truly wish the people behind TB can make a good living from it until they retire...
 
 
 
#56
0  
I understand you. But increasing prices will help only partly.
HighDpi for instance is a pain for programmers - very time consuming to adjust old software.and most of the customers do not see anything of the changes. Delphi took years - and has still some problems. (I assume they use still Delphi and their components)

I try to avoid Outlook as long as possible. And I have 2 licences (Office 2016 + Office 365). I could always switch.

TheBat! is limited when you use an exchange server.
Outlook has some advantages by being able to set filter rules on server side.
The general advantages of  TheBat are filter & search functions. But the search works only limited via IMAP and Exchange.

@Ritlabs:
Please explain to your customers why there is a two-tier society when upgrading. Why Russians pay 60% of a full version and the rest of the world has to pay 75%?
 
 
 
#57
0  
Quote
Holly12 wrote:
@Ritlabs:
Please explain to your customers why there is a two-tier society when upgrading.

Ritlabs doesn't come here often. But I think the "two-tier society" comment was uncalled for when 'fluctuating exchange rates' is such an obvious answer to your question (the euro has gained 30% on the rubel this year. That would make any Russian price from earlier this year look cheap today).
I volunteer as a moderator to help keep the forum tidy. I do not work for Ritlabs SRL.
 
 
 
#58
0  
Exchange rates cannot be the correct answer.
I did not mean in that comment the price in generally (the differences between the full versions in Euro und Ruble).

I asked why there are additionally also differences in the upgrade price policy: 75% of full price A (Europe) vs 60%.of full price B (Russia).

Assume we buy every 2 years an update. After 10 years we paid:
In Europe (and rest of the world): 100% + 4* 75% = 400%
In Russia you pay: 100% + 4* 60% = 340%
I hope this is clearer now what I meant.
It has nothing to do with the base price.
 
 
 
#59
0  
Quote
I asked why there are additionally also differences in the upgrade price policy: 75% of full price A (Europe) vs 60%.of full price B (Russia).

Ah, I see. Well, I guess Ritlabs and their resellers are free to set whatever prices they like for different markets.
I volunteer as a moderator to help keep the forum tidy. I do not work for Ritlabs SRL.
 
 
 
#60
-4.6159  
Well, I think Holly is onto something. My math shows the Russian upgrade price at just 50% (2,000 rubles to purchase, 1,000 to upgrade). I contacted RIT for their response.  

UPDATE: It actually *is* a currency exchange issue, nothing more. No prejudice or attempt to show preference. So, enough moaning and venting. TB! is an excellent email client and it's worth what we pay.
david
Edited: david kirk - 05 October 2020 20:18:11
 
 
 
#61
0  
Thanks for the update! I have to say though that even if Ritlabs (or any software vendor) did offer lower prices in economically weaker markets, that wouldn't bother me at all. Many vendors offer educational discounts, government discounts, discounts for students, the disabled or veterans, et cetera.
I volunteer as a moderator to help keep the forum tidy. I do not work for Ritlabs SRL.
 
 
 
#62
-148.6039  
Upgrade policy has sucked for as long as I can remember - this is a kind of hidden subscription fee without any warranty of getting fully working app. TB! has actually always been never ending beta, bugs aren't fixed, they just move on to the next iteration for next payment installment. This is why it has been losing customers for years and is no longer the windows-world-wide most popular mail client like 20 yrs ago.
 
 
 
#63
0  
I have to agree - on the other hand you have Spark which is more expensive and paid every year. But - at lest for me - extremely stable and for all platforms not only Windows. I returned after 5y to TheBat! just to check - I like the application but upgrade policy is very bad
 
 
 
#64
0  
>> on the other hand you have Spark which is more expensive and paid every year
Not only Spark.

>> upgrade policy is very bad
Which of post clients have better?

Just another day of moaning. Don't want to pay for upgrade - use it old version. This is not an evil with subscroption payment.
Модератор. Не являюсь сотрудником RitLabs (I'm not an employee of Ritlabs). https://belrus.biz/vendors/ritlabs.html
 
 
 
#65
0  
Perhaps I missed it or didn't look carefully enough, but I don't recall being warned that I was downloading and installing a paid upgrade.

I'll do it this time, since I need the app to remain stable right now and don't trust it to revert without damaging my data and installation. That's a risk I'm simply not in a position to take at present. But I will also now be considering a move to an alternative client when I have the time to do it safely.
 
 
 
#66
0  
Quote
Tony Donadio wrote:
Perhaps I missed it or didn't look carefully enough, but I don't recall being warned that I was downloading and installing a paid upgrade.

A download is not either licensed or unlicensed. What it is to you depends on your current license details. Look up the message that it was delivered to you with, and it should state until which version it is valid. Any versions beyond that will usually require a paid upgrade.
I volunteer as a moderator to help keep the forum tidy. I do not work for Ritlabs SRL.
 
 
 
#67
0  
Is this the upgrade for those of us who downgraded to v10.x have been waiting?
 
 
 
#68
0  
It seems v11.0.3.4 was renamed to v11.0.4 a few hours after release.

Anyway, I wouldn't rush with the upgrade. There seem to be a fair number of fixes, but very few for stability.
 
 
 
#69
0  
Main bug for me that Unread letters hides and marks with new preview. Disgusting bug! I do use it old preview because of it. It fixed now

And this new preview have only one needed thing - show threads of letters through all folders. All other with new preview makes me sad and angry. Old preview better in all instances.

I don't understand why we need for new indexing threads feature use it "this".
Модератор. Не являюсь сотрудником RitLabs (I'm not an employee of Ritlabs). https://belrus.biz/vendors/ritlabs.html
 
 
 
#70
0  
I realise that they're trying to move with the times - but I am not - I may be downgrading to 10 again after my visit here, I have downgraded twice now.

Found a solution but you must check the 'use classic preview pane' at the bottom of the viewer/editor preferences - this is the only way to see the RFC-822 headers should you need to - the 'source' display does not present them correctly.

Downgrade avoided for now ....
Edited: Neil Kirkland - 09 June 2024 15:09:29
 
 
 
#71
0  
So, this is [still] not the time for me to upgrade from 10.x to 11.x?
 
 
 
#72
0  
Quote
Frederick Smith wrote:
So, this is [still] not the time for me to upgrade from 10.x to 11.x?

Considering your experiences, I would wait for a version with substantial stability fixes before upgrading.
 
 
 
#73
0  
I've been using version 2.03 for over 20 years and it has been perfect. Even now running on Linux Mint, which I have tried the newer versions but have always gone back to the old version as it has a great user interface and just works without issues.

All the newer versions have horrible user interfaces and stability issues. At those prices I'd expect better.
Edited: Miggy Moggy - 09 June 2024 15:09:31
 
 
 
#74
0  
Quote
Miggy Moggy wrote:
I've been using version 2.03 for over 20 years and it has been perfect.

Do you run your own mail server?  v2 doesn't support any of the modern encryption schemes and protocols that today's mail providers seem to require.

Quote
All the newer versions have horrible user interfaces [..]

My v8.3 still looks much like v1 did, and I'm quite sure that later versions do too. The main thing is to use Workspace | Window Split Mode | Full Height Account Tree. And stay away from dark themes :)

Quote
[..] and stability issues.

New versions sometimes do, but subsequent updates solve those issues. That's how it has always worked with The Bat (and many other programs).
I volunteer as a moderator to help keep the forum tidy. I do not work for Ritlabs SRL.
 
 
 
#75
0  
Quote
Daniel van Rooijen wrote:
Do you run your own mail server?  v2 doesn't support any of the modern encryption schemes and protocols that today's mail providers seem to require.

Nope.

All I've ever used over the years for e-mail (since the late 90s) has only used / required pop3 and smtp, so I've never needed to update a perfect working e-mail client and in over 20 years going from Windows 98SE, 2000, XP, 7 and now Linux Mint. This old version of TheBat has been rock stable.

Whoever the developers are of that old version. You guys did an amazing job.
 
 
 
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