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Moaning, venting and complaining about upgrade policy., a bit-bucket for distracting off-topic messages about new versions
 
#76
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Quote
Miggy Moggy wrote:
All I've ever used over the years for e-mail (since the late 90s) has only used / required pop3 and smtp, so I've never needed to update a perfect working e-mail client and in over 20 years going from Windows 98SE, 2000, XP, 7 and now Linux Mint. This old version of TheBat has been rock stable.
You are lucky that the server(s) you are using still support the old versions of the POP3/SMTP protocols. If that ever changes, you will be forced to upgrade to a newer version of TB or use something else. It happened to me with TB v5.

Quote
Miggy Moggy wrote:
Whoever the developers are of that old version. You guys did an amazing job.
They sure did. And it's still great if you skip the early subversions and wait for the bugs to get ironed out.
 
 
 
#77
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V11.2.00 is available. Is it time to upgrade now?
 
 
 
#78
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What stops you from it? Is this some religious behavior?

You can always stop showing new preview pane to an old, if you don't need to see whole the chain.

Nevertheless: new preview pane is a shit and pain in the ass that needs to be destroyed, but RitLabs don't hear it us.

Да, разработчики? Лучше горькая правда, чем сладкая ложь. Я не верю и не буду верить, что нельзя сделать цепочки писем сквозь папки используя старый интерфейс, без этого ничтожества с кнопочками на полэкрана, но с панелью заголовков и без конченной дурости в виде вложенных файлов где-то не под рукой.
Модератор. Не являюсь сотрудником RitLabs (I'm not an employee of Ritlabs). https://belrus.biz/vendors/ritlabs.html
 
 
 
#79
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I posted here only a few days ago in June. It seems as if it vanished. I hardly see any posts or replies in June?
 
 
 
#80
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I can say I am using the Bat for more than 24 years (!) and never, never, been so frustated and disappointed as I am now. First version I used I think it was version 1.4 !

I used to like The Bat and to suggest it to friends and other people. Not any more.

I used to like The Bat as it was fast and reliable and quite flexible with the filters and macros. The presentation of emails was kept simple and direct. Switching fr om one message to the next one used to be  instantaneous.

Now, none of these characteristics are present. Preview pane doesn't work. Now we have a mess, visual effects without any sense (like stripes moving fr om left to right). Some times I click one message and the preview pane shows a different one. Some times I click one message and all I get is an empty area, nothing being shown. The contact management is absurd. One has to think where to click, wh ere to input data and wh ere to save any change.  

The worse is,... I find myself very often in panic that a message or a group of messages may have been deleted !!!.

Just one final question for RitLabs do you really think RitLabs is on the right path for helping users?
 
 
 
#81
110.472  
Jose, another 24(+) year user here since v1. Are you aware that the newest versions of TB! can look, feel and operate pretty much exactly like v1?

Options -> Preferences -> Viewer/Editor -> sel ect Use Classic Preview Pane
Options -> Preferences -> General -> select Disable Indexer
Options -> Preferences -> Message List -> unselect Switch to Summary View
Options -> Preferences -> Other Options -> select Use denser display of items for folder and message lists
Options -> Preferences -> Other Options -> select Display "old style" lines in tree views
Options -> Preferences -> Other Options -> select Use Old Address Book Interface
Options -> Preferences -> Viewer/Editor -> HTML Editor -> select RichText

If you're having trouble viewing HTML messages, you can disable CEF using the /ForceNoCEF command line option.

I may have missed some options, but the point is that all old features of TB! are still available.

If you have slowdowns and/or disappearing messages or folders, you can consider cleaning up your message base (Folder -> Maintenance Center -> Check Integrity/Repair, Compact; but back up your message base first).

Apart fr om TB! having trouble with some messages with calendar invitations, I'm experiencing none of the issues you described (using most of the options above with the newest version of TB!).

Regarding your final question, this is a heated topic which can set us down a rabbit hole, but here's my opinion in short: The general direction RitLabs is taking in "modernizing" and going forward with TB! is understandable and, frankly, the only way they can hope to stay relevant. The idea to use CEF to implement parts of the program in, fr om what I can see, JavaScript (for example, the new Address Book interface, Calendar, Conversation View) is actually quite clever. However, wh ere they fall short is the actual implementations which are quite unreliable and buggy. They seem to have bitten off more than they can chew.

Luckily, the old stuff is all still kept (sometimes as a result of our cries).
 
 
 
#82
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I unfortunately have to agree with many of you. I have been using The Bat! on and off since around version 4, paying for a number of upgrades over the years. It started out as a rock-solid, feature-rich client with incredible performance targeting power users. I don't understand the direction of the development team at all these days. I had to downgrade from v11 to v10 several times and even that feels worse than older versions. I really hope for the future of Ritlabs that they can rehire some of the people they seem to have lost and steer the project away from trying to resemble webmail clients (guess what - the users who want such interfaces are not going to pay for a client that needs to be installed).
 
 
 
#83
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There is no one reasons to have downgrade from v11 to v10. I and Miloš, and other adequate users says many times how to have old preview and other "old things" if you really need it.

Only one fictional reason moves you - MOANING.
Модератор. Не являюсь сотрудником RitLabs (I'm not an employee of Ritlabs). https://belrus.biz/vendors/ritlabs.html
 
 
 
#84
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Oh, moaning, wailing...  :{}  
 
 
 
#85
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Quote
Miloš Radovanović wrote:
Jose, another 24(+) year user here since v1. Are you aware that the newest versions of TB! can look, feel and operate pretty much exactly like v1?

Options -> Preferences -> Viewer/Editor -> sel ect Use Classic Preview Pane
Options -> Preferences -> General -> select Disable Indexer
Options -> Preferences -> Message List -> unselect Switch to Summary View
Options -> Preferences -> Other Options -> select Use denser display of items for folder and message lists
Options -> Preferences -> Other Options -> select Display "old style" lines in tree views
Options -> Preferences -> Other Options -> select Use Old Address Book Interface
Options -> Preferences -> Viewer/Editor -> HTML Editor -> select RichText

If you're having trouble viewing HTML messages, you can disable CEF using the /ForceNoCEF command line option.

I may have missed some options, but the point is that all old features of TB! are still available.

If you have slowdowns and/or disappearing messages or folders, you can consider cleaning up your message base (Folder -> Maintenance Center -> Check Integrity/Repair, Compact; but back up your message base first).

Apart fr om TB! having trouble with some messages with calendar invitations, I'm experiencing none of the issues you described (using most of the options above with the newest version of TB!).

Regarding your final question, this is a heated topic which can set us down a rabbit hole, but here's my opinion in short: The general direction RitLabs is taking in "modernizing" and going forward with TB! is understandable and, frankly, the only way they can hope to stay relevant. The idea to use CEF to implement parts of the program in, fr om what I can see, JavaScript (for example, the new Address Book interface, Calendar, Conversation View) is actually quite clever. However, wh ere they fall short is the actual implementations which are quite unreliable and buggy. They seem to have bitten off more than they can chew.

Luckily, the old stuff is all still kept (sometimes as a result of our cries).

This is gold!

I also hate the new Calendar in v10, but I haven't upgraded to v11 because the licence I purchased is not even 1 year old.
 
 
 
#86
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Quote
RangoX wrote:
This is gold!
I also hate the new Calendar in v10, but I haven't upgraded to v11 because the licence I purchased is not even 1 year old.
Thanks.

If you purchased the license for v10 late in it's life, it may be also valid for v11. See here: https://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/download.php#policy
 
 
 
#87
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Quote
Jose Lencastre wrote:
I can say  I am using the Bat for more than 24 years  (!) and never, never, been so frustated and disappointed as I am now. First version I used I think it was version 1.4 !

I used to like The Bat and to suggest it to friends and other people. Not any more.

I am in the same boat, I just bumped into an information request I made back in January 2001 asking how to connect my Compuserve (!) email account to TheBat.

I also used to recommend TheBat but not anymore. Not as long ago as this week I downloaded a trial version of an alternate program but still can't convince myself to change.

My main issue is with the HTML user interface to edit messages, I can't seem to get it working as I would like with fonts, it keeps changing fonts when going on a new line. I was thinking about upgrading to V11 but by reading a few messages I guess I'd better stay away from that version.  

I will apply some of the suggestions I read in that topic.
 
 
 
#88
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You can use it old html-redactor (HTML-RichText)
Модератор. Не являюсь сотрудником RitLabs (I'm not an employee of Ritlabs). https://belrus.biz/vendors/ritlabs.html
 
 
 
#89
0  
Quote
Miloš Radovanović wrote:
Jose, another 24(+) year user here since v1. Are you aware that the newest versions of TB! can look, feel and operate pretty much exactly like v1?

Options -> Preferences -> Viewer/Editor -> sel ect Use Classic Preview Pane
Options -> Preferences -> General -> sel ect Disable Indexer
Options -> Preferences -> Message List -> unselect Switch to Summary View
Options -> Preferences -> Other Options -> select Use denser display of items for folder and message lists
Options -> Preferences -> Other Options -> select Display "old style" lines in tree views
Options -> Preferences -> Other Options -> select Use Old Address Book Interface
Options -> Preferences -> Viewer/Editor -> HTML Editor -> select RichText

If you're having trouble viewing HTML messages, you can disable CEF using the /ForceNoCEF command line option.

I may have missed some options, but the point is that all old features of TB! are still available.

If you have slowdowns and/or disappearing messages or folders, you can consider cleaning up your message base (Folder -> Maintenance Center -> Check Integrity/Repair, Compact; but back up your message base first).

Apart fr om TB! having trouble with some messages with calendar invitations, I'm experiencing none of the issues you described (using most of the options above with the newest version of TB!).

Regarding your final question, this is a heated topic which can set us down a rabbit hole, but here's my opinion in short: The general direction RitLabs is taking in "modernizing" and going forward with TB! is understandable and, frankly, the only way they can hope to stay relevant. The idea to use CEF to implement parts of the program in, fr om what I can see, JavaScript (for example, the new Address Book interface, Calendar, Conversation View) is actually quite clever. However, wh ere they fall short is the actual implementations which are quite unreliable and buggy. They seem to have bitten off more than they can chew.

Luckily, the old stuff is all still kept (sometimes as a result of our cries).
Thanks. All this has served to confirm that the performance issue after upgrading to v11 is something else. I've just upgraded fr om v6 to v11, downgraded to v10, upgraded to v11 to test your recommendations, and right now I'm downgrading to v10 again. Your suggestions did improve the interface a lot, at least v10 seems similar to v6 right now, but v11 is still unusable (waiting 4 seconds to be able to read a message = unusable)
 
 
 
#90
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Quote
Patrick Veenstra wrote:
Thanks. All this has served to confirm that the performance issue after upgrading to v11 is something else. I've just upgraded fr om v6 to v11, downgraded to v10, upgraded to v11 to test your recommendations, and right now I'm downgrading to v10 again. Your suggestions did improve the interface a lot, at least v10 seems similar to v6 right now, but v11 is still unusable (waiting 4 seconds to be able to read a message = unusable)

I'm happy this post was useful, and thanks for the feedback. I also noticed some sluggishness in v11, but nowhere as severe as what you were experiencing. I don't know what your exact scenario is (POP/IMAP, folder structure...), but here is what helped me reduce the sluggishness when receiving messages on my main POP3 account: although I do sort messages into different folders and have many filters set up, more than 40000 messages were being kept in the Inbox folder. Once I moved most of them to another folder (carefully, a few thousand at a time) and compacted the Inbox folder, TB became much snappier when receiving and viewing new messages. It seems that filter application also sped up. A tip for the future if you ever decide to try a newer version... if it's relevant to you (or anyone else).
Edited: Miloš Radovanović - 28 January 2025 15:43:15
 
 
 
#91
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Quote
Patrick Veenstra wrote:
[..] but v11 is still unusable (waiting 4 seconds to be able to read a message = unusable)

Did you try the /ForceNoCEF option that Miloš suggested?
Do you also get these delays after rebooting Windows in Safe mode?

Do the delays occur with all messages or only with HTML messages? In a POP3 or IMAP account?
I volunteer as a moderator to help keep the forum tidy. I do not work for Ritlabs SRL.
 
 
 
#92
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Even though all accounts have several thousands of messages (close to 10k) there are no folders with more than 1k messages.

I haven't tried ForceNoCEF
I haven't tried Safe mode
I'm using different kind of accounts (both POP3 and IMAP), and the issue was the same with all.

The Bat 11.4.0.0 seems to be so much better. I'm still using the suggestions from Miloš so I don't know if that would apply to stock settings as well.
 
 
 
#93
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Daniel van Rooijen wrote:

A download is not either licensed or unlicensed. What it is to you depends on your current license details. Look up the message that it was delivered to you with, and it should state until which version it is valid. Any versions beyond that will usually require a paid upgrade.
This was helpful, thank you. For the record, this information also shows on the client's "About" page.
 
 
 
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